Interviews with Katrina Fox

Slit magazine , October 2006

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Vegan Voice magazine, December 2005

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Foxes and Kitties

Rascally wilful animals who refuse to be tamed and run wild if you turn your back - also the monikers of queer journalist, Katrina Fox and her alter-ego Kitty Minge.

Slit: Katrina, do you especially relate to a particular animal?

KF: I've always been a 'cat' person as I've been brought up with them. As a child I was always an outsider (partly due to being adopted I think and having crushes on female teachers at a very early age!). My best friend was my cat Kitty, and I enjoy the mystery of them, especially their pagan connections (the witches' familiar, and the Egyptians' worshipping of the cat goddess Bast).

Slit: Some people know you as your performance persona Kitty Minge (comedian, social commentator and omnisexual good-time girl) but today we want to talk to you about your reputation as a committed and outspoken vegan. First up, enough of people who are "vegetarians" but who scoff tinned tuna on toast, can you explain to us what you define as vegan?

KF: A vegan is a person who, as far as is realistically possible, does not consume, wear, use or buy products that have come from an animal or been tested on animals (by animal that includes insects, crustaceans, birds and fish). This includes byproducts and also things that may have come from live animals - such as dairy, wool, silk, feathers and honey. I say 'as far as is realistically possible' because there are some instances where it is impossible: for example if you drive or travel in a car, the brake fluid and anti-freeze will have been tested on animals, but it's not enough for someone to say 'I can't realistically not drink milk' or 'It's too hard to give up dairy ice cream'.

The shock of recognition - first moments of animal consciousness

Slit: I came to an animal consciousness through a strange encounter. On a school excursion when I was about nine, my class visited the local factory Teagles Turkeys, a shining beacon of industry in my tiny town in country NSW… We began our tour at the frozen end product section of the factory, with turkeys and ducks unrecognisable as such, they were just shrink wrapped plastic coated stumps. We then proceeded backwards through each process - stuffing, leg chopping, plucking, defoliating, gizzard and poo extraction…until we got to the blood tunnel. Today's slaughter was ducks. The dead ducks were hanging by the feet from hooks with blood dripping from their slit necks, spoiling their pristine white feathers. On this day, the blood tunnel pulley system had broken down so the workers were all standing around on a smoko. We were left standing there looking up at the ducks waiting for their throats to be slit on a conveyer belt of death. We were bawling. The cry went out "Free the ducks!" Pandemonium ensued. Kids jumping on each other backs grabbing the ducks who hadn't had their necks slit and running to the cyclone fencing barrier and throwing the ducks over. Kids were breaking into the duck pens outside and chasing the ducks out. Two other kids and myself were branded ringleaders and were banned from future school excursions… and it was the last time I ate duck. Was there a moment for you that triggered your animal consciousness?

KF: I was 11, eating a beefburger at the dinner table and I asked my mum where the burger came from and she said 'a cow'. I'd only seen cows once or twice on a visit to my cousin in the country, as I grew up in a small town, but once I learned that a living creature like that had been murdered, cut up and cooked to make the burger, I went vegetarian then and there. I didn't know the word, I just told my parents that I wasn't going to eat animals anymore. I also included fish in this, as I think I suddenly made the connection between our pet goldfish (I no longer think it's ethical to keep fish in tanks or bowls as 'pets') and the fish fingers we'd eat.

Fashion issues

Slit: You are a lady of style and taste. We need your advice on a dilemma. People in BDSM communities wear leather to signify interest in BDSM, and to show a proud fetish and brave openness about belonging to this community… This is so embedded in some of our minds that leather has become synonymous with being a butch, bad, motorbike-riding dyke rejecting feminine stereotypes… with being a leather-studded mistress… Do you have a new non-leather vision for danger, rebellion and kinky sex and play?

KF: There is nothing brave or rebellious about draping yourself in a material that has involved the torture and mutilation of a living, breathing, sentient creature that has suffered enormously just so a bunch of kinksters can think they look cool. Participating in the oppression and murder of a non-human animal by wearing its skin as sign of your so-called fetish 'pride' is nothing short of fascism. If the SS soldiers in Nazi Germany had skinned the gassed Jews and made collars and coats, would you have thought those to be sexy and worn them with pride? And before anyone goes off at me for being 'disrespectful' to those who died in the concentration camps, just remember the words of the philosopher Theodor Adorno, of Jewish descent, who said: "Auschwitz begins when people look at them and say 'they're only animals'". In the early 70s which is when I believe the 'leather' scene kicked off in the US among gay men, there may not have been such an awareness of animal suffering but it's over 30 years since the animal liberation movement began exposing the horrors and evils in our labs, farms and abbatoirs and there's no longer an excuse for anyone to be so ignorant or uneducated on the subject.

In some countries, it's legal and acceptable to kill gay people or adulterous women, as 'honour killings'. Do we think this is ok? Black people were considered slaves in the past and mixed-race marriages were illegal until 1967 in the US and British women were considered so inferior to men that they were unable to vote until 1918 - that is, until liberation movements shifted people's perceptions. Yes the multi-billion-dollar meat and dairy industries don't want the public to know about the atrocities they commit so they can make a profit, but come on, people, it's 2006. Time to take your heads out of the sand. All you have to do is click onto PETA's website (www.peta.org) to get an idea of the appalling treatment of animals in the world today. A cow is castrated, his horns are ripped out of his head, and third-degree burns in the form of branding are inflicted on him, all without any pain relief - and all non-consentingly. His throat is then slit, often while he is still conscious; he is then hauled upside down by one leg, bled out, skinned and hacked to pieces. If anyone thinks that's cool, sexy and something to be proud of…please lock yourself in a dungeon now and don't bother coming out.

Lights, Billboards, Red Paint, Action!

Slit: Under the new so-called anti terrorism laws, it is feared that animal liberationists will be targeted as the definition of legitimate political activity is narrowed and dissent increasingly becomes characterised as terrorist (as in the case of the SHAC 7 in the US). What are your predictions for the impact on animals and animal rights activists in this new security climate?

KF: What's happened with the SHAC 7 (www.shac7.com) is a disgrace and a blow to freedom of speech and should alarm anyone who is an activist of ANY kind. In summary, seven (now six) animal rights activists were convicted under terrorist legislation in the US for trying to close down Huntingdon Life Sciences (HLS) - a truly vile animal experimentation company, with operations in the UK and US, which was featured on a Channel Four TV programme showing employees kicking and punching beagle puppies and throwing them against the wall - before killing them in painful experiments (see Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty - SHAC www.shac.net). Those convicted didn't actually commit any crimes, they were convicted because other people took various actions such as sending black faxes to HLS and its suppliers. This should send a chill down any activists' spine because it means that any above-ground organisers of a campaign can be held responsible for any and all acts that anyone engages in while furthering the goals of the organisers.

As to what impact this will have on the animals and animal rights activists - while it doesn't help matters for either party, it's not going to stop the movement. A read of some of the interviews with activists on the excellent Australian website Abolitionist Online (www.abolitionist-online.com), run by Claudette Vaughan, clearly shows this - even some who are currently in prison have vowed to get "back in the trenches" upon their release. I'd say that the more above-ground organisers are targeted, the more underground actions will occur, such as those attributed to the Animal Liberation Front (ALF). ALF actions include rescuing animals from places of abuse, destroying the equipment used to inflict suffering and burning down the facility where the suffering takes place (all strategies employed in the suffragette and black liberation movements). The irony of animal rights activists being charged under 'terrorist' laws is that no human has ever been killed in an animal liberationist action (they'd have surely failed Terrorism 101 abysmally and I doubt Al Qaeda would give them a job!). Governments and big business are terrified at the success the animal rights movement is having, especially SHAC - HLS has seen a number of companies refuse to do business with it - and in their desperation to save their profits, they throw the 'terrorist' label at activists.

We are all animals

Slit: Why would you like to see the queer community vegan? What is your vision?

KF: No one likes to be treated as 'things' without any regard for their comfort, lives, freedom or pain thresholds (unless it's in a consensual BDSM play scene of course!). Whether it's women, gays, lesbians, trans and other sex and gender diverse people, few people want to be discriminated against and to have no rights. However diverse our political persuasions, sexual orientations or gender inclinations, most of us would argue that we deserve respect, compassion and the freedom to try to live our lives in a contented manner. If we believe we have this right, then so too do other sentient beings. Just because they are of a different species shouldn't make any difference. How many times have we heard about one of our community being bashed or killed because they are 'different' (and therefore, in the eyes of the perpetrator 'inferior' and 'worthless')? Killing a solitary cockroach that's found its way into your kitchen because it 'disgusts' you or you 'don't like it' stems from the same cowardly, bigoted mentality as the queer basher. As a queer community, we know about oppression, we know about lack of compassion towards us because we are 'other', so it's up to us to step up to the (vegan) plate and start treating other beings with the same respect and compassion we would like afforded to ourselves.

Stereotypes abound when it comes to sex, gender and sexuality, but we all know we are an incredibly diverse bunch, and the same goes for vegans. We're not all pasty, hippy, grungey folk who live in squats (not that there's anything wrong with that at all!). You can be a vain, glam, fabulous high femme in full drag, mega fuck-me heels, super-sexy kinky attire and be a vegan. You can be a bad, dangerous, motorbike-riding butch and be vegan. You can live within mainstream society but opt out of the mindless consumerism encouraged by unethical corporations and governments whose joint efforts are gradually destroying the very planet that sustains us (and humans believe they are of superior intelligence? Yeah right). My vision is for queers to reclaim the word back from the marketers in their quest to sell crap to us, and for us to 'just say no' to cruelty-ridden products and make ethical choices instead.

Slit: What is one small pro-animal thing we can do today?

KF: Well, I've got a little list here, so people can choose which 'one' or more they like: If you're a carnivore, stop eating meat; if you're a vegetarian, cut out the dairy - you can live without cheese and cream, there's a whole new world of delicious (and healthier) alternatives out there just waiting for you; change your brands of personal care and household products to cruelty-free ones (see www.peta.org or www.choosecrueltyfree.org.au for lists); donate to an animal rights charity or group; boycott zoos or circuses that have animals; adopt a cat or dog from a shelter or pound and definitely not a pet shop (see www.saynotoanimalsinpetshops.com); click on the websites mentioned in this interview and stay informed.

Slit: Any final comments?

KF: Veganism has the image of being 'extreme' - largely thanks to the (government-controlled) media (look what they did to the image of feminism, after all!). But in this sad, fucked-up world led by moronic politicians hell bent on leading us to self-destruction and answering to corporations which think nothing of perpetrating the most unspeakable abuse, torture and murder in the name of profit, we'd do well to heed the words of Martin Luther King who said: "The question is not whether we will be extremist but what kind of extremist will we be."

In Your Face

Katrina Fox talks to Sienna Blake about the art of protesting, comedy and wearing high heels.

VV: Katrina, how did it feel to be voted sexiest lesbian in the Sydney's Pride Centre's Awards for 2005? Or does a vegan gal just accept this as her natural reward for looking after herself?

KF: Well, it was a pleasant surprise, as I was up against some stiff competition, including popular DJs. Almost everyone was younger than me too, although I don't look my age which I'm sure has to do with not consuming animal products. So I was delighted because often the image of vegans is not always glamorous or sexy, and I always like to break the mould, go against the grain - I think it's inherent in my nature.

VV: You've been vegetarian since the age of 11 and vegan for 10 years. Did you have a life-changing experience when you were a kid?

KF: I was brought up in a working-class family about an hour outside of South London, where during the week, we ate things like beefburgers, mashed potato and/or chips and peas. I didn't really question it, and being a town girl I didn't get out to the country much. I asked my mum one day what beefburgers were made of and when I learned they were bits of dead cow that had been murdered, I was devastated and became vegetarian. My parents didn't take it that well - during the week they substituted the beef burgers for things like cheese or vegetable pancakes that you'd buy frozen in a packet, but on Sundays my mum would cook chicken and despite my saying I wasn't eating it, she'd still put it on my plate. I hand-fed it to our cat, who was well pleased to have got a second helping after his own. I didn't know any other vegetarians during my teens or any groups, I was quite isolated. When I moved to London aged 20, I went on some protests with London Animal Action and learned that not all cheese was vegetarian, so made that switch, but I still didn't get the leather and dairy connection, I just thought it was ok because leather was a by-product and I didn't realise the cruelty involved in the dairy industry.

VV: You're from the UK, where you took part in the huge and ultimately successful campaign to close down Hillgrove Farm, a business that bred cats for vivisection. (I remember this protest from when I first went vegan in England in the '90s.) Can you tell us a bit about it?

KF: Yes, and this was around the time I went vegan, because of going on those protests. Hillgrove was a 'farm' that as you say, bred cats and kittens for vivisection near Oxford. A big campaign was launched to draw attention to it - I think I learned about it through a sticker or leaflet. It was so well organised - coaches were booked to bring people to protest in the area from all over England, and even from Scotland on designated national days of protest. At least two or more would depart just from London, so the numbers were large. I met lots of vegans and found out about the cruelty involved in dairy and just how many other animal-based ingredients are in so many products. It was like a big light bulb that went off in my head. Also, I'd started doing some voluntary work at the Celia Hammond Animal Trust, which neutered and rescued cats and kittens and rehomed them. Celia was a famous model in the 60s who's spent the past 40 years helping animals and she spoke at one of the Hillgrove demos and a couple of people at the shelter were also vegan. I got to meet the people who organised the Hillgrove demos, as well as people from the Animal Liberation Front who take a more direct approach.

The thing about Hillgrove is that it was successful because it utilised different forms of protest - from petitions and letter-writing, to big demos where hundreds of people would literally sit down in the roads and bring Oxford to a complete standstill, thereby ensuring press coverage, to more 'hardcore' actions like setting fire to the cars of workers and generally harassing them so they stopped working there. I know the latter is seen as controversial and anti-abortionists often use those tactics, but I met an old man on the demos, who wore a sandwich board over him with graphic images of tortured animals, and he said the labs were like animal Auschwitzs. And the thing was - he'd been in Auschwitz. When people like you or me who are younger say this, people get annoyed at the comparison and say it's disrespectful, but when someone who's been inside it says it - you can't argue with that. So, when people are going to work at those places, they are the equivalent of the SS going to the concentration camps and doing their 'jobs' torturing, starving and gassing humans and I don't think many people would have a problem with harassing them - the workers at Hillgrove were never physically harmed - that's one of the tenets of the ALF, not to harm the people but to destroy the tools they use to torture other sentient beings and the places they do this in. But every day the workers would be greeted by protestors and their neighbourhoods leafleted - it sounds a bit vigilante, but you have to remember what's at stake - thousands of helpless creatures destined for torture.

I really liked going on the demos - running through fields in doc martens (can't be glamorous all the time!) chased by riot police, and sitting down in the roads. It was so good to be around people who really believed in stopping animal abuse and were able to outwit the authorities to get this information into the press. The demos were rarely organised in the sense of you agree to meet at a designated place the police agreed to because then they've got you under their control. The protestors decided where they wanted to be and there was often little the police could do - although they'd sometimes arrest a load of people, tell the media they'd arrested 100 people, but then release them without charge. Fortunately, the tide turned, and the guy running the farm decided to give it up. Shortly after a monkey farm in Brighton also closed, Shamrock Farm.

VV: You're a freelance journalist, I believe, but you're also a stand-up comedian. Where did your alter ego, good-time girl Kitty Minge come from, and where is she going?

KF: I've been a journalist since 1997. I have to work freelance as I'm not prepared to sell out my principles by working on staff for mainstream media. Before that, I did a degree in performance art in the early 90s and worked in fringe theatre, so I've always enjoyed performing. I've always enjoyed writing too, which is why I took a break from being on stage and focused on journalism for a while. Since coming to Sydney four years ago, my desire to be on a stage in front of an audience returned and Kitty Minge was gradually born. Kitty is really a bigger, more outlandish version of me. She's an outspoken, omnisexual, trashy vegan trollop! Over the years I've met so many colourful people from all walks of life and I tend to gravitate towards those who live on the edge of or outside mainstream society and whose voice is often not heard. Many people I've known over the years have a sense of camp and eccentricity and lack of regard for social conformity.

Kitty Minge combines a large part of me, as well as some of those people. And as I mentioned earlier, I love to break down stereotypes. Yes, Kitty is bawdy and trashy, cheap and blue, but she's also highly intelligent and political. So one minute she might be talking about eating pussy (and I don't mean cats - this is a vegan magazine, after all!), or going down to the Hellfire (fetish) club in her dominatrix outfit and picking up a girl for an SM session, the next she's spouting off about the dangers to human health of animal experiments, or the corruption of fast-food chains and biotechnology firms who are messing with our food and eco-systems. The audience don't really expect it and they're kind of like 'huh?' and I hope in that confusion that the sentiments I've been talking about will slip into their unconscious - apparently it's a psychological technique, so I hope it works! At the moment, I haven't referred to meat-eating in my gigs, but I will. I don't want to totally alienate audiences, so it's finding the right way to bring it in. At the moment, I focus on stuff that the majority of people 'get' ie most people don't agree with animal experiments, and I attack drug companies. I want to get the positive messages of veganism into people's minds and one of the best ways to do that is through humour. But obviously there's nothing funny about the animal-based industries, so I have to do it in a particular way - it's kind of hard to describe without seeing my act! Kitty is definitely 'cult' - she's not for straight mainstream audiences and by straight, I don't necessarily mean heterosexual, I mean straight with a capital S - it's more of a mindset. I love performing for gay, lesbian, bi, queer and fetish crowds. I did a spot at the Hookers and Strippers Ball recently and that went really well. I haven't yet performed for vegans or animal rights people, but hopefully some will come along to my Mardi Gras show at the Paddington RSL, Oxford St, Paddington.

VV: Okay, I have to ask this: what are your favourite vegan dishes? And where do you like to eat out?

KF: Well, I'm not one for cooking or making things. My girlfriend, Tracie and I eat a good percentage of raw food such as salad and fruit, and I also like the organic yeast-free bread from the health food store. I tend to steer clear of restaurants that aren't vegan, and don't generally eat out much. My favourite place to eat out (or usually get a takeaway from and take it home) is Iku Wholefoods. I was so glad when I discovered Iku a few months ago. Most of the other vegan places do Chinese or oriental food, which I don't mind in very small doses, but I was hoping there'd be somewhere in Sydney that offered some European-style vegan dishes. Iku's vegan lasagne is a huge hit with me, it's delicious. They've got several branches in Sydney, and I hope they keep expanding and stay with the vegan ethic - it's so nice to be able to have anything I like on the menu.

VV: Do you find Australia a bit backward when it comes to vegetarianism? (I do, and it's so boring. I'd like to get hold of Kitty's thigh boots and dish out some Uma Thurman-style kicks, but I'd probably fall off those heels.)

KF: In a word 'yes'. The fact that Meat & Livestock Australia put out an ad saying being vegetarian is 'un-Australian' and the ad won several awards spoke volumes about the way vegetarianism is perceived in Australia. It really annoys me that ads like this get airplay, but when groups like PETA put billboards up in the US highlighting the cruelty involved in industries where animals are used for food, clothes etc, they're told to take them down. Maybe it's a numbers thing too - I'm used to being in London where there's a lot more people in a central place, so it's easier to muster up large numbers of people to take part in demos or protests, whereas Australia has fewer people and is a much bigger place so the people are more spread out.

It's great to see magazines like New Vegetarian and Natural Health in the majority of newsagents, because I think, sadly, that it's the health angle that is most likely to lead to people giving up animal products, rather than waking up to the cruelty - I'm generalising obviously, and that's not the case with everyone, but it's like Chrissie Hynde said in a documentary when asked about people who eat meat: "I think most people know [about the cruelty], but they choose to ignore it." I'm astonished - not just with Australians - that people who I otherwise like and admire and who are switched-on and intelligent in many ways eat meat or wear leather. I feel like shaking them and saying 'Don't you get it? How can you not get it? You're not stupid - Wake up!' And it's frustrating, but you have to just keep on chipping away and doing what you can, being informed and ready to explain to anyone who asks about veganism, rather than whacking them over the head, even though it might be tempting! I'm all for wearing graphic t-shirts with messages. I had one in London that was a PETA one with a skinned cow with blood dripping off it in an abbattoir, it was truly horrific, and the words "Would you like fries with that?" It was so effective. I used to wear it on the crowded tube and get looks of horror, but no one ever challenged me because the veggie folk understood what I was doing and if anyone who ate meat was upset, it was pure hypocrisy, so what could they say? If you're going to eat it, know exactly where it comes from and what really goes on. It's very in-your-face but sometimes you just have to be.

As for heels, darling - a tip for not falling over is to lean back slightly when you walk - although these days I'm a big fan of platforms - you get to be tall, leggy and fabulous, and your feet are in a flat rather than an arched position.

Vegan Voice is an Australian quarterly independent magazine promoting the ethical, spiritual, environmental and health aspects of veganism. For more information visit the magazine's website at http://veganic.net